Dr. Stu’s Podcast #118 : “Nebraska Birth Keeper”

Blyss returns with Dr. Stu and explores the undiscovered world of “Private Membership Associations” with midwife and trailblazer, Angee Hock of Nebraska Midwifery Services

9 thoughts on “Dr. Stu’s Podcast #118 : “Nebraska Birth Keeper”

  1. Diana

    I would strongly, strongly caution health practitioners against this. The arguments advanced by PMA advocates are gross misapplications of constitutional law and anyone who asserts otherwise is selling a lie. Many state and federal bodies such as licensing bodies, departments of public health and the FDA have successfully reached beyond PMAs to sanction members for violating laws they are seeking to avoid. The man who popularized the PMA concept among alternative health practitioners has been convicted of several federal crimes and is not even lawyer. PMAs are not a well kept secret. They’re a scam and I’m super concerned to see them taking hold among midwives.

    • Katharine McCall

      Thank you. I’m also incredibly concerned for midwives that this is being spread around now.

    • Dayla S Rhodus

      Well look where it got her now!

  2. I would also caution about it as well. My question would be, “Has this PMA been tested in a court of law?”. It’s one thing to pay a lawyer $6000 to do some paperwork. It is quite another to be charged and then come out the other side. In general, it’s all well and good to practice until you have a bad outcome or you get a complaint to the government from a public member.

  3. theresa

    What about telling moms they have the option of delivering with no epidural or medication within a hospital setting with a doula and minimal “medical intervention” but with the safety net of resuscitative emergency equipment and staff immediately available.
    Also who governs that your “traditionally trained” person is really trained and not just someone who has watched a few moms give birth.

  4. Katharine McCall

    Stu, Blyss, and audience,

    There is no such thing as alegal. If your profession is not mentioned by law it is de facto LEGAL. PMAs have never held up in court… and in a state where unregulated midwifery is legal you definitely don’t need a PMA to practice.

    Also, please remember that if an act is legal, a PMA isn’t required. If an act is illegal, a PMA won’t help you and could just add a couple years to your conviction for a possible additional conspiracy charge.

    Please don’t spread misinformation. This was discussed at length in my own trial and found to be an illegal conspiracy. It has also failed for midwives in other states.

    These “specialized lawyers” won’t defend you when you are arrested.

    -Katie McCall

    • Tim Mitchell

      So glad to see this here, you’re 100% correct.

      I am a lawyer and my significant other is a certified midwife. She put this episode on to get my opinion on the legal arguments. I was incredulous and came here intending to send an e-mail to to show. They should probably delete this episode. I wonder how many people listened to it and took all the legal-sounding arguments as true and might get themselves in trouble?

    • Tim Mitchell

      One small caveat though: just because something isn’t specifically mentioned by a law doesn’t necessarily mean it’s de facto legal. I imagine most licensing statutes have a catch all provision for “other medical professionals” or something like that. It’s not like you can just make up a different name for something and get around a state’s licensing requirements. So, just because midwifery is not mentioned in a state’s statute isn’t a 100% guarantee that you do not need some sort of license. Unless a state court has held that midwifery doesn’t need a license I wouldn’t be confident telling someone they absolutely don’t.

  5. james noe

    OMAHA, Neb. (WOWT) — A woman who advertises herself as a midwife is facing felony charges after a baby died following an attempted home delivery in North Omaha.

    Angela Hock was booked into Douglas Jail early Wednesday. She faces charges of negligent child abuse resulting in death, a Class 2A felony, after an infant she attempted to help deliver died June 17.

    The Douglas County Attorney’s Office said Hock turned herself in and is expected to appear in court Friday.

    At about 9:15 p.m. June 15, Omaha Fire Department paramedics were called to a residence near 48th and Spaulding streets after a 25-year-old woman at full term in her pregnancy was in distress following complications during a breech birth at home, according to an Omaha Police report.

    The woman told an Omaha Police detective that she went into labor at about 9 p.m. June 14, and that Hock reportedly arrived to help with the birth at 6 p.m. June 15, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday in Douglas County Court. After realizing the baby’s foot had been delivered, the mother told detectives that Hock asked her whether to continue with the birth at home “and stated she had trained in delivering breech babies,” court documents state.

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